Wednesday, April 22, 2009

Warmachine MKII - Comment Response

Stelek Posted:

FYI a couple years ago I did a simple test of an all-infantry list, back when everyone was (A) still playing, and (B) running Warjack heavy armies.

In one day, I think I killed the entire game system for every person at my local shop.

Warjacks need to be focus free and rebalanced so infantry fear them (aka like Dreads in 40K).

None of this ten men taking out the walking tank bullshit.

Too bad really. The warjack models are really something else, much better than GW's boxes on stilts. Doubt PP will fix them correctly, and as I already have a better sci-fi game (with walkers AND vehicles) in 40k I won't be going back to Infantry Wars anytime soon.

Thanks for the comment. You make a ton of good points.

I can't say that I figured out that warjacks suck all on my own, but after reading post after post on the PP boards and then comparing it to my own experience with the Khador 'jacks, it was really clear. Jacks suck. Fucking zealots with POW 12 grenades should not be wrecking a fucking Destroyer in one turn. I switched to cryx for the fun infantry models and the arcnodes.

Now it looks like PP is lowering the power levels of everything (except jacks) in an effort to make jacks better. What they should be doing is fixing the problem, not trying to hide it.

I can't say specifically what they should do, but the MKII rules ain't it.

All you hordes players are gonna get fucked when Hordes MKII shows up soon after. And guess what, unless the totally screw over beasts, they'll still be better than warjacks.

On to this - a common piece of PP dogma that sticks in my molar like a raspberry seed: PP is better on every level than GW.


PP is no different than GW
Its true. I know the PP staff and the fans boys (oh god, the fan boys) have spent a lot of time and effort dragging GW through the mud (hint: they don't need help), but PP is no pretty much the same thing.

First off:

PP is a company with a business model - they make a fun game, but they have a bottom line. So does GW. Selling books and models gets them there.

Metal miniatures are expensive to make and expensive to buy. Sorry. When the price of tin goes through the roof so does the cost of the miniature. You can bitch and moan about "those greedy bastards" to your heart's content. Just be aware that if prices weren't raised, you'd have a dead game. Fun fact - PP and GW raised their prices at around the same time last year due to tin increases. PP got almost no flak, while GW was practically tarred and feathered. Please, be fair.

Moving on the "PP does no wrong" bull shit:

Privateer Press is starting to make plastic miniatures. It turns out that only making 10 man units that cost $85, 5 man cavalry unit that costs $100 and $30 robots is fucking crazy. Hmm, sound like some other company we know?

Warmachine costs less to play than warhammer 40k. Wrong. If you cut the right corners you can get a 200 point army for $400-$500. You pay through the nose for metal and plastic is cheap. Guess who has more metal.

The Warmachine rules are better. They're more complicated and lend them selves better to awesome combos. Ture. But it turns out that that sucks after a while. Rules bloat is a bitch. The system is getting a huge revamp due to the retarded amount of complications that found their way in and the fact that the signature unit is a dog turd. A game that is basically unplayable by newbies is a dead game.

PP and the fan boys spent the lat 7ish years telling everyone that they were gonna do things diffrently than GW. They weren't gonna fuck up. Plastic miniatures are for twats the said. 3rd edtion ruined 40k they said.

PP is following a nearly identical path that GW is. It turns out that if you have 25 years of experience in game making, you actually learn some things. GW went plastic because it sells more models and cuts costs. GW simplified thir game because it makes writing new rules easier and makes the game more accesable. PP is just now coming to terms with all the same problems that GW faced.

Privateer Press - welcome to reality.


  1. You said: "PP is following a nearly identical path that GW is."

    That's part of why I ditched PP entirely, and refused to get into Lord of the Rings.

    I can see the future better than some saps, I guess. Not exactly a talent, being able to see the obvious: that skirmish games don't scale well and need to be entirely rewritten to get into larger games, and that means buying more models for another game system--and those models are often as not going to be metal and expensive as hell (or in the case of WoTR, wound counters just like in Fantasy).

    Anyway, until PP puts out lots of plastic, a MUCH better rules system (than GW), and some kind of's still just a bunch of IG with Dreads to me. Evil IG, Religious IG, Russian IG, and Standard IG. thanks.

    Bound to fail imo. Then at some point in future, they'll do all of this and succeed. When will that be? 2012 when 6th edition 40k is re-released? Well woopdeedoo.

    In the end, 1/3 the armies, shitty fluff, and 2nd edition 40k rules does not a better game make.

  2. I'd only disagree with you on the shitty fluff. But that's not the meat and potato's of a set of rules.

  3. Well, I much prefer Mutant Chronicles fluff over War Machines.

    Real evil there.

    In War Machines, the basis of the game is Warjacks and they don't play a huge part of the fluff nor are they any use in the game.

    If the majority of your fluff is pointless (no real protaganists) and the titular units are not a huge part of the fluff (and not even in the game) isn't that shitty fluff? lol

  4. I really enjoy the Pseudo-European industrial setting and how the story advances with each book. Its interesting and intertwining and it read much like so many throw-away fantasy novels. I love it. Keeps me hooked for the next installment. It's an interesting presentation of the background. It's also fun how the protagonists (the waracsters) are reflected in the game and evolve with the epics and alla that. Warjacks may be shit, but the warcasters are pretty great.

    I could argue with any point you bring up, but what'd be the point?

    To each his own. :)